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[ED NOTE: This is a corrected version of a previous message ( part of this digest: http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/logbrowse.pl?trx=vx&list=H-War&month=1002&week=d&msg=qlGRdL/kaPGjc9wwDEoh2Q&user=&pw= ). I'm afraid that I originally sent out the wrong message and so am sending this so Mr. Mackinlay's full statement is available] It would appear that the original request has been lost in the fervour of the discussion. Mr Yared passed on a request, in part : "......I understand, for example, that a number of universities in Australia specifically penalize students who cite from his works, whilst others frown upon it but do not impose penalties." Whilst I know that : WINDSCHUTTLE Keith (1). The Fabrication of Aboriginal History Volume One Van Diemen's Land 1803-1847. McLeay Press, Sydney, 2002.is definitely frowned upon by a number of Australian universities, and is banned from the libraries of such. A number of academics having had their qualifications either revoked or required to resubmit their revised submissions for doctorates following its publication. The publisher and others have been 'leaned upon' by various educational authorities and State Governments (notably West Australia) not to publish the rest of the series, and the incoming Labor Government in late 2008 made it one of their priorities (?) to continue this censorship. There is however been absolutely not a peep about Irving being banned from use as a reference in any form of literature. Irving had been banned from entry into The Commonwealth of Australia and its Territories by the then Labor Government in 1992, and subsequent changes of government upheld it (Irving has been frequently interviewed by the Government broadcaster's (The Australian Broadcasting Commission - ABC) radio current affairs service and other programmes since, as recently as this January) a number of attempts to have this overthrown in the Commonwealth Government courts have upheld the ruling. I believe that there is confusion in regard to Australia and Austria (2). In Austria, Irving was convicted under the Verbotsgesetz law, which prohibits the "glorifying and identifying with the German Nazi Party", a criminal act in that country. This law forbids under the threat of imprisonment any public or private act, publication by print, electronic media, signboarding, wearing of symbols or clothing etc in relation to this. This is reflected in the academic system, and so such as Irving (along with many others) has his books banned, and therefore any reference to them is forbidden in the footnoting or bibliography of any assignment/thesis. Issues of the German current affairs journal Die Spiegel in January had article and correspondence on the upcoming academic publication of Mein Kamp, and how even this will be banned in Austria!!!! In regard to Irving himself, there can be no doubt that in his early works; The Mares Nest (1964), The Virus House (1967) there was quality research, some of which was rather embarrassing to the British Civil Service. His first publication in 1963, The Destruction of Dresden, was published with much positive comment in its many reviews. These subsequently proven to be grossly inflated casualties figures were picked up by the far left and far right of European politics, and the Soviet Union and constantly used by all. I must admit that the first two are the only ones that I have read, and still have copies of (which used in recent times), the others hold no interest to me. However many people whose opinion I respect, and who have immense dislike for Irving's fixation on the Holocaust, state that ALL of his books have much of value within their pages, and that whilst people should be aware of his fraudulent writings and behaviours in relation to the Holocaust they should not be rejected because of this. There is a huge amount of information in printed form held by libraries, and a fair amount troubles me. Should we throw out those that we consider fraudulent to our own beliefs, or those that we know give misrepresentations or have fraudulent references. One correspondent mentioned the user of the pseudonym of David Hamilton-Williams, whose trio of texts on Napoleon " a good read and is in many libraries" has in review been shown to have been flawed. A Cambridge academic wrote the well received "Deaths Men" (1978) and oft reprinted (in paperback); this subsequently followed up by "Haig's Command"(1991) which is described as a "manufactured fraud". Mr Jeffery Grey (who frequents these electronic pages) whose writing to the editor of The British Army Review first alerted me to the major flaws in this text. Subsequent reviewers also pulled the book apart for these and other major flaws. It oft reprinted and was still (in 2008) being used by the British education system as a primer for A Level students on the Great War, and is a standard reference in Australian tertiary institutions. Who is fraudulent in this case; the academics who continue to push this known badly flawed text onto students, or the man who wrote it? I personally am against censorship in any form in relation to the printed word, and whilst many would disagree, irrespective on whether the text comes from a left wing source, or a right wing source, if published it is within the public domain. It has therefore been seen, read, and is within the human psyche. This must then be acknowledged, just throwing them to one side and in effect banning them just does not work. In my current project, this dealing with South Africa and surrounding states. In Australia, there has been within the university and state library systems a massive cleansing of any historical, or other volume relating to "White Rule", and published within their lifetime of rule. In effect a form of "racial cleansing". The history happened, so what was published relating to it should be retained. Regarding the students, I really do think that the belief that their minds cannot sort out the falsehoods from the truth denigrates them. Yours, G/. NOTE : 1. In North America he is probably better known (from his publications) of : WINDSCHUTTLE Keith. The Killing of History : How Literary Critics and Social Theorists are Murdering our Past. Encounter Books, San Francisco, 1996. PB, xv, 372p., index. 2. The factual stories re Australia and Austria being confused are legion, many well documented. My personal experience of this phenomenon was in the early 1980's when a USAF Reserve or Air National Guard unit flew the first C-5 Galaxy transport into Royal Australian Air Force Base Amberley in Queensland. I on a period of full time duty with the Citizens Air Force (as it then was) and was duty officer at the time, accompanying the Australian Customs official, and the Movements Control Warrant Officer to the flight deck. There we were greeted with a "Guten tag, Mein Herren" - the story being that the crew had been briefed in their home base (in one of the US 'Square' States) on the nation of Australia, our 'German' language and similar Austrian customs. Since it was not April the First, and on cross examination the crew of eight had the same genuine story, our initial thoughts being that the aircraft had been mis-missioned, and should have gone to Germany/Austria. Sadly this was not so, they genuinely believed that we spoke German in our country (better I suppose to the majority who think we have Kangaroos bouncing down the main streets of Sydney) and they came in for some tremendous leg pulling in the various messes. The entire crew were employed in their states academic system, with the aircraft captain, a colonel being a professor of French Medieval Literature. I and the two others had to suffer for a very long time by being addressed by all and sundry with "Guten tag, mein Herr". Gordon Mackinlay ----- For subscription help, go to: http://www.h-net.org/lists/help/ To change your subscription settings, go to http://h-net.msu.edu/cgi-bin/wa?SUBED1=h-war -----