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Re students Titanic analogy, iIf the analogy were accurate, this type of self-sacrifice might very well have taken place. The problem with this model chosen, to describe meaning to "peace with honor", is, it was never understood as the Captain going down with his ship, like some Titanic. The model chosen is not accurate. These students have asked the right question. But, its answer is to be found elsewhere than comparing the US decision and policy to a sinking ship. The Civil War model, mentioned previously in thread discussions, is more accurate. Concern was more for saving the American Ship of State and the American political community. Disaster on the rocks of Vietnam, meant not losing the ship, but abandoning the rocks and waters in which the ship was attempting to sail. The consequences for the American ship of State would have been closer to mutiny or civil war in the society, very much on the order of 1860s US historical experience. It was also, somewhat, oriented towards European history and experiences from the defeat of Germany out of WW I, where "extreme" political elements emerged and claimed "defeat" resulted from politically, being "stabbed in the back" at home, by the German Government of that era. In fact, Germany's Army in WW I, had lost the war to the Allies; psychologically and politically, they could not accept their military defeat, in the field. Concern for possible political consequences, in the US from "right wing" extremists, those same who accused Democrats of "losing China", after the Mao-led Communist revolution emerged victorious on the Chinese Mainland, prompted this specific formulation of "peace with honor", as the only face saving way for America to accept military stalemate in the field, without political blowback at home as well as diplomatic and foreign policy repercussions of an undesirable nature abroad. Wyatt Reader MA UCLA__Whittier College US Govt. Ret.