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H-ASIA January 14, 2006 Menzies and the Map (continued) ************************************************************************ From: Geoff Wade <firstname.lastname@example.org> Dear H-Asia members The following exchange took place on the Map History (MapHist) list, between Mr Liu Gang, the owner of the map and myself. The various other relevant postings are available at: http://mailman.geo.uu.nl/pipermail/maphist/2006-January/thread.html Best Geoff Wade National University of Singapore --- Dear Mr Liu (and fellow List members), Thanks indeed for your mail to the list (below) and the details included. As noted by all the posts to this list, the details of the map which can be seen from the illustration provided in the online Economist website indicate that the map is a copy of a European map (or maps), incorporating various elements (such as the "island of California") which were created by European cartographers. That is, even if this was drawn in the 18th century as claimed, it is unclear which elements (if any) were derived from pre-18th century geographical knowledge. You note that "the descriptions with red circles are the original notes from the 1418 world chart showing the barbarians paying tribute". Unfortunately, that for Europe which you translate as "People here mostly believe in God and their religion is called Jing includes the Chinese term "shang-di" for God, a term introduced in this sense by the Jesuits only in the 16th century. I am inclined to see this map as a fake -- and it is immaterial, in terms of Mr Menzies' purposes, whether it is an 18th or 21st century fake. However, I will await further examination and statements from cartographic experts on this list and in China before reaching any firm conclusions. As to the term "charlatan", I have used it repeatedly for Mr Menzies and continue to do so, because of his unconscionable fabrication of "evidence", his continuing efforts to defraud the public and his willingness to deceive without concern for the social effects of his lies. Further details can be found at the following websites: http://maritimeasia.ws/topic/1421bunkum.html http://www.danbyrnes.com.au/lostworlds/articles/issues.htm With best wishes, Geoff Wade From: email@example.com on behalf of liugang Sent: Sat 14/01/2006 12:21 To: firstname.lastname@example.org Cc: email@example.com Dear Mr. Geoff Wade, The reason why I send this message to you is that I still have a regard for you being a scholar in the field of map history even if I do not believe that it would be appropriate for a scholar to make a conclusion without any study in details. The ammouncement of the map will take place on 16th January 2006. Such ammouncement will provide to the public the key descriptions written on the map. You have not yet seen the map in details or read the detail descriptions written on the map. However, you have made a conclusion already. What is the basis for you to say the map is an 18th century copy of a European map? Just the two hemispheres, the continents and the non-maritime detailed (as you say) depicted on the map? Before I made my conclusion on the map, I took more than four years to do the research. Such research lead me to built up my confidence on the genuieness of the map and to question the commom knowledge about Zheng He's voyages. In order to assist your staudy on the map, I would like to provide, as follows, the English translation of the key descriptions depicted on the map: It had a plat of a Chinese compass imprinted above center. In the upper right-hand corner of the map are six Chinese characters, which together mean "general chart of the integrated world". On the lower left corner of the map, the cartographer wrote "(this chart is) drawn by Mo Yi Tong, a subject (of the Qing Dynasty), in mid-autumn of the year of Qianlong Gui Wei (the Chinese name of year 1763), by imitating a world chart made in the sixteen year of Ming Yongle (the Chinese name of year 1418) showing the barbarians paying tribute (to Ming Dynasty)". On the upper left corner there is an important note, which reads, "The descriptions without red circles are not the notes of the original chart (i.e. 1418 general chart of the integrated world)". Accordingly, the descriptions with red circles are the original notes from the 1418 world chart showing the barbarians paying tribute. The following are the descriptions with red circles: A note recorded on the Pacific Ocean state that "In the thirteen year of Yongle Emperor (1415), following the emissary, Eunuch Ma Sanbao and other persons (I) went to those barbarian countries including Bangla and arrived at Hormuz as well as other barbarian countries, the imperial edicts were preached and rewards were granted. In the sixteen year of Yongle Emperor (1418) (I) came back to Beijing." The note on the region of Alaska says, "The people living in this area are similar to Qidan and Mongols, who feed on fish." This is a clear reference to the Eskimo. The note on western America says, "The skin of the race in this area is black-red, and feathers are wrapped around their heads and waists. They are anthropophagous people." This note refers to the Native Americans. There are two notes on South America: "The cities here were built with huge stones, therefore called stone cities"; and "The people here believe in the religion named 'Balaka', in which human beings are used as sacrificial victims, and people pay obeisance to fire." The first note refers to the Inca Empire, since the cities of the Inca Empire were usually built on mountain or plateau with huge stones. The second note refers to ancient Peru, where one of the native cultures was named "Paracas." The note on Australia says, "The skin of the aborigine is also black. All of them are naked and wear bone articles around their waists. Those people also have anthropophagous habits." The note on North Africa says, "There is a huge city here built with stones, the dimension of stones can be compared to those used by tomb of Qin Dynasty Emperor." (note: Qin Dynasty 221-206 B.C) The note on South Africa says, “The skin of people here is like black lacquer. Their teeth are white, their lips are red, and their hairs are curled." The note on Western Asia says: "All people of the cities in west of Jiayu Pass believe in Islam and Muhammad. Their temples are built with clay and stones, and walls of the temples are decorated with gemstone. People who want to go into the temple must bathe and change their clothes, such customs also exist in our middle kingdom, and it is so funny." The note on the region between Asia and Europe says, "The shape of people eyes are round and within deeper eyeholes. Their heads are wrapped with scarf, their clothes loose, and their trousers long. Women here must wear veils when going out, or else be punished." The note on Eastern Europe says, "People here mostly believe in God and their religion is called 'Jing.'" By the way,do you usually call the counterpart "charlatans" when you are in debate? Best rgards, Gang Liu Chinese map/book collector ****************************************************************** To post to H-ASIA simply send your message to: <H-ASIA@h-net.msu.edu> For holidays or short absences send post to: <firstname.lastname@example.org> with message: SET H-ASIA NOMAIL Upon return, send post with message SET H-ASIA MAIL H-ASIA WEB HOMEPAGE URL: http://h-net.msu.edu/~asia/